What are your Political views?
Im guessing no-one is hardcore conservative but ive met many mohawk wearers who I would say were quite conservative..........
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Permalink Reply by Sonic Architect on
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I would just liek to mention too that anarchy is not a fad for the overly optimistic. I am optimistic only in the sense that I know it needs to change and I do my best to bring it. But in that I know that it will not happen in my lifetime as do most anarchists who are truly as such. To commit to a life of struggle is to know that you will die with a lot of these cancers still happening. To be 100 percent committed to the struggle is to acknowledge that you face a huge chance of either being killed or put in prison for the rest of your life.
So in that regard, it is not over optimism. But if it is, why is that bad? So many are so fucking bleak in oru world and its understandable and it shows. Every single day I know there are children starving while I sleep under a roof with food thrown out by the companies that could go to feed these kids. I see how much waste there is and how our profit over people mentality has fucked us all up so bad and I honestly loose sleep and cry over it at times. So in my experience, to be a committed radical is nto to be overwhelmed with optimism but more so frustration, pain, and anguish which is why so many drop out along the way sadly.
I think the fad you speak of is more like punks thinking they are anarchists because "They believe in Anarchy" and know the exploited and sex pistols lyrics. Punk has made anarchy a word while knowing nothing of its ideals. I speak more of street punk obviously like the exploited and not crust or anarcho stuff like Crass or Antischism or Aus Rotten.
Figured I would chime in with that =)
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Permalink Reply by Josh on
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yeah thats what i meant... its those people that buy into it because its cool. what i mean by the overly optimistic are those that flaunt the symbol and dont do shit to promote or support their views and pray that someday it will all pay off, like hitching a ride so to speak. i saw some jackass at a punk show my old band played at and he was wearing a jacket with the anarchy symbol on it, i was like meh ok cool people can believe what they want he's just being himself, the next show we played i saw the same guy there with another jacket that bore the swastika; i was like wtf the two dont even go together! i asked him about it and he had nothing intelligent to say at all. don't get me wrong if i knew that people could do it and would do it then yeah i would believe in it too, but for me in the present age it seems improbable. the process for a population as large and diverse as ours would take a long long time... which is why i believe in libertarianism. its as close to "good" anarchy as i could ever see in my lifespan. if we all of a sudden did switch to anarchaic society it would be chaos, not because anarchy itself is chaotic but because drastic sudden social change is chaos.
i listen to the Exploited everynow and again but i'm not much of a Crass guy... i listen to governmental stuff but i wouldnt say that many bands i listen to are anarchaic... i like ska and hardore stuff like Operation Ivy,the Arrogant Sons of Bitches, Bad Religion, and Black Flag... good stuff that is
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I will condense both discussions to this comment to make it easier =)
I think we largely agree on most of the things but maybe the thing we are not certain on which is what I get from your last reply that the mentally ill do not reach that age. My stance, being mentally ill myself and certainly reaching that age, along with numerous people I know who are bi-polar, schizophrenic, borderline personality disorder all have this same cognitive faculty. We do very much know the difference of good/bad, right/wrong, etc. and largely our psychiatric problems onset in our early 20's. I taught martial arts until I was 20 and started sliding into depression and later (after a lot of manipulation by peers who kept fucking me over) into borderline personality disorder and schizoaffective disorder. While my symptoms started from an early early age, around 7 I displayed violent tendencies, largely they were reactionary and unnoticed by peers parents. My abuse from my brother turned inward to myself eventually and even though i did violent shit in reaction, I did feel bad about everything...about the whole situation.....one of my best friends who is schizophrenic graduated high school as an honor student and was run of the mill. Besides being hospitalized a few times for relatively short periods he has a very strong cognitive faculty of right and wrong, as do the others I know.
Largely, my belief on mental illness with genetics vs. environment is that it is a combination in some part of the two. Most people with psych problems (and all I know including myself) have some mental illness in the family history. I however do not think that is a guarantee that it transmits to somebody further down the bloodline and frankly, the reality of that philosophy is still largely unknown and only lies on facts based on circumstances. I think that markers may be present to make a person more susceptible to mental illness and then the subjective experience comes in...how much trauma the person takes (if any) and how much the psyche can handle before it cracks. Again too, I think support systems are a huge thing of it and as I also stated, it cannot be universal. There will be people who are brought up in great environments in our eyes and still display psych problems but I think that goes to show, you can distort reality with your projection of self. The happiest looking people are not necessarily happy but due to our social ideas of talking about problems, being less than human, being broken etc. keeps things bottled inside people.
So largely, I think the onset of mental illness is what really needs to be defined. Is it somethign we are born with and prone to, or initiated in to. My belief through experiences, a lot of talkign with people who have mental illnesses, reading psych books and so on, is that it is both and largely stems form a deep rooted social structure that is fundamentally flawed.
One thing we certainly disagree on is that if society just flip flopped to an anarchist society that it would be chaos. It would be. I do not know or speculate as to if would be the same amount as now or more because it is not going to happen. An anarchist society will only take hold after years, decades, possibly centuries of individual social reform to learn to be more self sufficient and autonomous and putting peoples emotional needs before our own material wealth. Trying to harmonize our goals with that of the community and we are a long long way of from that. It will not happen in my lifetime and I have the potential to be alive much much longer still. In the modern state anything that hints of social revolution, not reform gets crushed because it is a direct threat to the capital monopoly held by tyrannical governments. Squats get evicted, autonomous groups get infiltrated, militants get killed or alienated as to not be effective, all the while solidarity is kept from happening by driving wedges anywhere they can be driven...and people eat it up day after day and play that game sadly.
I definitely hear what you mean with that kid and the logo and I honestly figured that is what you meant. It is certainly annoying how trendy it gets but I think it is very important for people to separate trendy teens being into the latest fashion, and people actually involved in a resistance lifestyle which is why I said something. =)
As for music I love it all from Crass to posturing street punk like The Casualties who promote drinking all day. I like ska and hardcore. I like bands in every genre of punk stemming from anarcho influence to not. I also like a ton of music in other genres that directly have not a thing to do with politics in the least. I do always like to bring that stuff up to those who listen to say "Anarchy In the UK" or "I Believe In Anarchy" spewed forth rhetorically and fashionably by street punk bands who have no idea what it is about. Not in a mean way because hey, i enjoy those bands too but as I said, I think it is important to differentiate the Sex Pistols who say "Anarchy In the UK" with no ideals, and Crass or Conflict or Subhumans who actually worked towards making it happening and calling those bands out for what they were, marketed rebellion and trendy.
nice talking with you still =)
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sorry i meant to clarify mental illness i mean the ones that people are born with (downs syndrom and other forms of mental retardation) i myself suffer from mental illlness but i believe that my concsience is developed enough...
From your descriptions though it does sound like we agree about the effects of a sudden anarchy. It would be chaos. I stated that, using the American populous as a model, it would probably take years upon years for headway to be made without creating social chaos, which isnt good anarchy. I almost see my political beliefs as a precusor to yours. If it were possible to have such an ideal society without a government in a decent amount of time i would be all for it, but it would seem as though we have reached an age of unprecedented big government here in the US... my approach is to ween the people off of their government by slowly acclamating them to thinking for themselves through miniarchy. when it comes to the government i am a minimalist, my way of thinking is that if we could reduce the government to just bare minimum eventually people would outgrow their governments. after many years of peace and prosperity under that system eventually there would be somewhat of a shift away from it over time.
And yes i absolutely despise people who use Sex Pistols lyrics to base their politics off of... there's nothing to it. Its that classic SLC Punk argument, they're just trying to be trendy. Most of the punks out here were i live (near Tulsa Oklahoma) arent anarchists but the ones that are arent very intelligent with their ideals (the guy with the jackets)
How do you feel about violence? The ones here think its cool to steal walkers from the Women's Domestic Abuse shelter and form gangs and beat up drunk 60year old homeless guys who stumble into shows and ask a skinhead why he's wearing suspenders...
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I personally do not see down syndrom or other things of that sort as mental illness but what you mention, mental retardation. There are people who do not develop mentally and who do not suffer those things and perhaps that is what you mean with the conscious thing? People who are not visibly stricken by anything but people who have a low IQ or cognizance.
I think a lot of evidence exists to again support though that some trauma may have occurred that lessened the capacity to develop. Not just after birth either. A lot of that stuff can be affected by things like smoking or drinking during pregnancy or other trauma introduced to a pre-born fetus. This of course does not mean every single case and if it shoudl rise in the future we speak of, people will be better equipped to deal with it. As I said, we can deal with these types of things by implementing new ideas and synthesizing good ideas from a current model. There are ways to watch for people who need it such as these cases or the disabled or the elderly that does not 1. Make it seem like a police state 2. That allows the person to still be involved in the community and not isolated and 3. Does not make the person feel subhuman. The prison model of dealing with all that stuff has failed and failed miserably and on top that has been co-opted into business.
Your way of putting it is interesting to me...the pre-cursor theory. It is similar to the marxist theory of the dictatorship of the proletariat. It seems very good in concept but must be met with the idea that people must constantly challenge themselves to be autonomous and only then will we learn to be. With minimal government to still care for us, we will still be dependent on it and factually, our government will never go to that. It would need to be torn all the way down, uprooted, and completely revolutionized or the same complexes and social diseases we suffer under today, will manifest themselves again.
So today, even though autonomous projects face repression or get crushed, they serve a few purposes. They allow the people doing them to empower themselves and in so doing, display models of another social system that people do not know is an option. When people see these things, it inspires them to go on the quest for their own autonomy. Some people use militant and armed struggle, some civil disobedience, some squat, some travel, the ideas are limitless and when people get confronted with a new mode of operating, they start to ask questions about it and research it. I have had plenty of people ask why I never sell anything from my own music projects, why I will often refuse to be paid for shows, why I eat out of dumpsters and many other things. Of course it is too much to get into in 5 or so minutes but if the interest is there, that person will go forward and start learning and trying to live a bit more free until the day they die hopefully.
I get frustrated when people think their clothing or what music they listen to gives them any cred (or lack thereof) in these matters. I fight this battle daily to try to get people to realize that. I look like a cliche punk rocker. Have a mohawk, usually colored, spiked vest with patches, tattered clothing, bullet belt and combats. On the flip side, never been drunk or high or done either or anything like that, and can often debate them under a table. The when I am tabling I get random people who think because they grew up listening to punk and metal that they have an expanded mind that is more capable of debating these things than somebody who listens to electro or folk when sadly, it most often is not the case. Our trivial traits have no bearing on what we know or can know. Punk largely knows nothing of human interaction, nor does being dressed like a punk or gang banger mean you know nothing on it.
How do I feel about violence. I am not a pacifist nor am I a macho shithead looking to prove myself. I certainly condone violence that combats violence being inflicted upon others because ultimately to stop violence, it must be consumed with a greater violence. Some frat boy wants to shit talk me into fighting him, I won't do it. He may even punch me and I might not hit him back, it would depend on the situation.
As for theft...I am all for theft but in a more ethical way. I do not condone nor justify the type of theft you speak of committed by those people. I refuse to steal from people who are genuiniely trying to make a living. I live in an area that has some local agriculture that is being horribly erased by things like Wal-Mart. Produce could be gotten freely on the side of the road from these peoples stands but I could never condone stealing from them because they are victims just as everyone else is. I have no qualms about people stealing from corporations or individuals who are exploiting people to death. Chain stores, big box retailers, office theft, employees stealing food for themselves and friends at restaurants are all just fine and I lose no sleep over it because those same places are raking in a ton of money by exploiting and sometimes killing people.
What most don't know is that stores have an allotment in the budget that already covers merchandise lost to theft. Those stores like WM who claim they lose a lot to theft and that is what increases prices are full of shit.
So when it comes down to it, I am not against violence if it is placed where it needs to be. I completely stand by and support militant groups like the Black Panthers or the Weather underground or in current days the ALF and ELF.
I absolutely despise the prey on the weak mentality of those you mention though and those are sadly just symptoms of our own corrupt system and more examples why we need to start taking a different approach.
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I totally agree with you about corporationslol I work for walmart lol and i totally see that, they claim they lose alot in theft but do you know where that money is made up? OUR BONUSES they claim that we as the workers have the responsibility to stop the theft while at the same time waiting on (what are mostly) shithead customers hand and foot so as people steal from what is admittedly a harsh and fraudulent corporation their attempts are misguided and end up harming people like me who work there because its the only job i can do while i go to school or older people who's social security doesnt pay everything... i would think that there would be a better way to show up the corporations, then again thats just me from my perspective.
As for the violence, i personally dont pick fights but if someone threatens me or my friends i will stand up to them... one time i was at a Sonic Drive In and some guy who used to date one of my friends pulled a baseball bat on me and a couple other friends. I wasnt gonna back down, we had girls with us and he threatened to hit one of them. However i in no way advocate this "fad violence" in the punk scene.
I cannot say that i would ever support the Black Panthers or the Black Muslim movement of the 60's... its not that they're black or of a different religion, its not even a factor to me, i dont support them because their ideology is one of hate and violence and getting even with white people. I will admit that the shit that they have been put through and are still going through is terrible and people need to get beyond that. I am for equality and unity not for revenge and settling a score on a societal scale; its fighting racism with racism and past violence with present violence, that contradicts my idea of an ideal anarchy and only furthers the long road ahead of such a movement. I absolutely admire the works of Dr. MLK Jr. he had a vision of unity and sat about getting it peaceably proving that people could truly live as one. I cant say that I have heard of the other organizations you have mentioned but if they work towards unity without senseless violence i would be for them. I am antiwar and mostly antiviolence until it happens on a personal level and its the only way.
As for your take on my precursor theory, i can appreciate those points. i just like to hope that people wouldnt let their government become them. it should be a gradualization because sudden social change creates chaos. I guess i just like to be optimistic and believe that people are smarter than the gov. monkeys in DC.
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hey..good to hear from you again.
The Black Panther movement was not explicitly racist but was largely framed up to be that. They took support from white radicals but would limit actual membership to african americans. In the 60's the BPP eventually shattered largely and then there was the Black Liberation Army stemming from it and many whites took up arms with them. One of which being former Weather Underground member David Gilbert who is now serving a life sentence for an armed robbery he was apart of with the BLA.
I think the BPP racist myth largely comes because Malcolm X was originally quite racist but eventually understood the defeat in that and opened himself and understood that that position was no better than the white racists. In the beginning though yes, he was very anti-white.
And while I agree with you that no form of racism will be of use, I think people need to understand the saying Black Power more as it came to the militants of the 60's. Black Panthers were a very anarchist group in a sense seeking the empowerment of the people of their own community to handle their own communities. They did not racists white cops coming into their neighborhoods as was happening so they formed and fought. It was also very female-positive with a lot of leadership positions being held by women.
Then look at Mumia Abu-Jamal who was a Panther. he works with many white people and condemns racism on either side of the line.
As for MLK..I read a very engrossing book recently called "How Nonviolence Protects the State" which addresses this very thing. Pacifists co-opting and whitewashing history. MLK is a prime example. He is held on a pedestal of peace, but such things as him kickign out a gay male from his organization, his unfair treatment of women, and him even saying in a speech "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible only make violent revolution inevitable" This stuff never seems to get read or heard or acknowledged by a lot of people. I have the audio sample of that speech so it is certainly not made up. MLK was only a significant threat because there was so much armed resistance going on that could not be co-opted by the government though they tried with COINTELPRO. The Black Panthers, The Weathermen Organization were two groups on both sides of the racial line committing violent resistance but they could not be infiltrated or co-opted because they had no real central leadership, unlike MLK's group who was easily taken under control by government manipulation.
The same thing in India with Ghandi. Ghandi was effective because of violent resistance going on alongside his non-violent civil disobedience tactics.
To say that violent revolutionaries had no say in it is absolutely false and sadly that is what is happening today.
But anyway, the book was very engaging and I highly recommend it. It really makes the point of comfort. White people get a comfort that those who are repressed and suffer horribly do not get. White people are less likely to be discriminated against in any capacity because our institutions are inherently racist and this book drills that home and makes you evaluate where you stand when you speak of equality. It hit me really fucking hard and helped me to understand a lot better.
The definition of senseless violence needs to be evaluated as well and again, senseless violence to myself and you (who I presume is white skinned) is different to those fighting for their lives every day. For immigrant or black neighborhoods who have faced severe police brutality, racism, and poverty and have seen cops kill people and walk, frame people up like Mumia who are on death row, massacre the members of MOVE in Philly, their definition will be different. Why should somebody be able to get away with murder because they have a badge? And why should a community not have the right to protect and defend itself? THAT is what the Panthers and the BLA were fighting for.
But for us who do not have to face that everyday, we see are instilled with the ethics that it is wrong. Personally, I feel those ethics are wrong and when somebody has to fight or die, their ethics will change too.
Do not get me wrong, I do not want to kill anybody. Soldiers, cops, politicians are people just as I am and though they are very skewed morally and ethically, I do not think anybody deserves to die. but I am also not naive enough to think that they listen to reason because it has been proven that they do not and their efforts have been ramped up over the years. If a violent uprising happened, which I think one day it will, those same cops and soldiers have a choice to either protect the greed of those above them, or face the same shit millions of people face every day because of their policies. Yes it sucks but none of us asked to be in this shitty model of living and ultimately, as MLK said, they bring it on.
By senseless violence, I personally mean I am not gonna fight some jock who calls me gay or challenges my dignity with his macho attitude. It is misplaced violence.
And yeah I respect your theory but honestly, I think with the amount of time it would take people to transition totally to a free state, the lust for power and control would grow liek a cancer.
However, it would depend on how well the social structure is. How valued things like autonomy, consensus, and self-empowerment are. A rotating structure where everybody partakes, learns, teaches, and has equal input and has no central governing force, stands a much greater chance of this.
So I suppose it should not be completely written off and that actually, you stand pretty close in idea to me. I think they key thing is uprooting the problem first and understanding that the corrupt system we have now is the problem and then sort of reverse engineer it ya know? Of course, this is happening slowly now and needs to continue...people becoming aware, self empowered, learning from each and giving the knowledge freely, helping each other, helping our communities, and harmonizing our personal wants and needs with those of our community, putting our emotions as a priority over profit....and I think as peopel slowly do that, and slowly build more momentum and show the alternative over the coming years and decades and get more people started along that path, your idea may be very possible because at that point, though some will be more comfortable with it than others, they will also have a firm grasp on the workings and how it could fall again and deteriorate and would take steps to ensure that it didn't. These steps would have to include I feel, the whole community and let everybody know, the "leaders" are not an absolute and can be stripped and replaced should the power start coming unbalanced.
Another great book that kind of talks about this is called Consensus which examines the consensus process. It is actually by the same author of the book I mentioned earlier. his name is Peter Gelderloos and both the Consensus and Nonviolence books are great and informative reads.
Being optimistic is good, it really is but I think we also need to be realistic too, and know which is which. Ultimately, people are smart. And its not even intelligence thats the issue when it comes to gov vs. people. The governments are driven by greed at any expense and they break down peoples will to resist this system. And if you do still resist, they make sure that you do it in a way they can control (peaceful, non-violent resistance) and is no threat in itself. Anybody who goes militant is isolated by the gov with the help of a co-opted peaceful protest regime.
So its not that people are dumb really, its that they are apathetic, and been effected by years of psyops to control them with routine. We think we are free, and you are....until you step outside the accepted ideas they put out.
take care and as always, really enjoy the conversation and exchange of thoughts.
pe(A)ce
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I had to stay true to form ya know?
besides, I don't think it is as long as an earlier one in this topic which was basically a whole book unto itself =p -
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I can understand and appreciate that. As for my statement of MLK, I can agree with your comments on that because i am sure that his religion came into play on some of his stances (homosexuality is immoral, women are submissive etc.) par of that was also commonplace with the time period (not saying it was right).
As for the Black Panthers and the Black Muslim Factions of the 60's, yes Malcolm X was very racist in the beginning but I am afraid that his actions caused an inextinguishible flame of hatred to be ignited within that organization, so much that it got him killed when he changed his mind (and also learned the truth about some of his leaders)... Have you ever heard of Louis Farrakhan? he was the man behind Malcolm X's assassination and to this day is a leading Black Muslim minister and says in one of his sermons on youtube "That the white people owe us the whole country" to me that is not equality or brotherhood. Which is why i said i couldnt support them. As for the Weathermen, i did some research and weren't they the faction that blew up part of the pentagon some years ago? I understand the ideals behind the faction, i guess, but i definitely dont approve of their methods.
I only believe that violent revolution should counter a violently oppressive system of government. Like Iraq for example, they shoulda just killed that bastard Saddam themselves, its their government and they needed to take control and they didnt do it. We got to rubbing our faces in it and now they want us gone now that we have wasted our lives and resources fulfilling their purpose, they essentially used our country like a hitman while we tried to use them for a gas pump. the whole thing was a waste of time and humanity
Yes white people enjoy a certain comfort. In sociology class we called it "white privilege". its basically an immunity to racial stratification. as long as whites are in areas where they are the majority or are in positions of power they will enjoy this "white privilege". I myself am phenotypically white/red but i am ethnically classified as a Native American, i am actually a tribe member. i have experienced racism for being/looking white (perpetrated by my fellow natives) so i know that it can go both ways, but i also notice that at the time it happened people like me who looked whiter than the others were the victims of such racism.
I can understand a communities right to defend itself, thats what the first gangs were designed to do...after all doesnt the constitution give us the right to avoid and fight a wrongful arrest? I, however, think that if the leaders are so complacent in their positions of power and greed then i do believe that reason will not work and thats a shame. People are degrading themselves if they choose not to heed the words and concerns of the people who elect them that defeats the purpose of our "democracy". I personally believe that all we are waiting for is a police state, when that happens people will finally wake up and revolt. It is my hope that it shouldnt take that occuring for good things to happen, while at the same time not having to blow shit up to get peoples attention. Yes while people like us may understand motives and meanings behind blowing up the pentagon a la Weathermen, the masses will not because their minds are supplanted by the daily news that just disregards it as terrorism against their "way of life and freedom". Its all about spin control, the government tried the same thing in "V for Vendetta". it took a police state and a cop killing an innocent to finally get the people up in arms.
I know for a fact that the government tries to control peaceful protest and its sad, they give "progress" accordingly to shut people up i know this, the question with me is when is a good time to start the violence? before or after something terrible happens on the part of the government? I believe, in accordance with Locke and Hobbes, that when the government violates our "social contract" that is when revolution needs to take place. have they truely violated our social contract? i can think of a few times but for the most part nothing incredibly oppressive has occured. they dont go to churches and shoot the congregation, they dont enforce a nationwide curfew or police state... all i am saying is that in my eyes violence from the govt. should be met with violence from the people when it comes to dealing with government. if they strike first more people are apt to support you, but if you strike first the government has more resources and will make the people actually work against you for them and your new ideals go nowhere.
I believe that people individually can be intelligent free thinking entities but i believe that the masses, of this present age, are victims of their own ignorance. yes they are apathetic and the fact that they allow their tv sets to ploy their minds is their own fault. yes gather information from the media but dont believe everything you hear people. i think that issues of equality both racially of class and of gender arent necessarilly gov problems but rather are problems of society that are perpetuated with help, in no small way from the government. the government doesnt really create inequality, the people do. as long as people reject true brotherhood there will never be unity and there will always be hate and violence. a vicious circle so to speak.
A question outside the point: i see your pic and thats you with a mic right? are you in a band?
Again, great discussion (and we've never attacked eachother once!!! lol)
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haha yes I enjoy this and thought that last night...maybe there is hope =) two people, conversing on the internet and it has not degenerated in to a flame war.
The pic is me yes, I play in no band but perform a solo noise/power electronics act called Black Bloc.
The weathermen did not blow up the pentagon and have not been active since the early/mid 70's. They did commit many bombings of federal buildings but they never once killed any civilians. They made advanced warnings and took extreme efforts and cares to make sure nobody was killed because they knew then that they would be no different than the government they opposed. There is a wonderful documentary about the group called simply "The Weather Underground" which I highly recommend.
And again with the BPP, the party officially denounced any form of racism but it ended up getting splintered into two factions that competed with each other. This was aided by efforts by COINTELPRO. So there was a faction led by Huey Newton which worked more progressively and alongside others groups such as SDS (mostly white college students) YIP (Youth International Party) The White Panthers, Gay Liberation Front, and the Rainbow Coalition. Newton took up the slogan "Power to the People"
Eldridge Cleaver among a few others took up the "Black Power" stance and though still had some similar ideologies, were much less progressive. This is where a lot of stereotypes and thoughts of the BPP come from unfortunately because it is more extreme.
As for violence meeting violence and all that...how closely do you follow the world news? Everyday our government, among many others commit horrible horrible acts upon us and millions of others, and it is not going to stop. Look as recently as the DNC and RNC convention protests where people were arrested en masse for nothing and a media blackout happened. Protesters routinely get fucked up by police when they do nothing. It is almost a guarantee for a major protest.
As for martial law and that, it is already happening very slowly but again, it is not covered in the news. As of Oct 1st there is an active combat unit fresh off missions in Iraq, doing dedicated missions on the US soil. It is being said they will handle mass crisis, civil unrest, and emergency situations. This is the first time that this has happened. This is not the Army's duty, it is the national guard. And to put a combat brigade, who spent something like 35 of the past 60 months engaged in ground combat in Iraq, as a defense for civil unrest is very fucking scary. Especially when you consider and look at how people get treated by regular cops doing these actions.
This is not even counting the mass amount of horrible atrocities that are carried out against foreign countries in the name of greed. But we white people dont see that as wrong because it is for our comfort and is not us living under a 24 hour curfew as our social infrastructure gets bombed out. We do not have to worry about dying of simple shit like diarrhea.
Society is controlled by government thus those problems are indeed caused by government. It has been that way since the inception and it is in the best interest of those up top to keep it that way because they feel they have some divine right to privilege. And as logn as they keep pushing forward towards ecological catastrophe, displacing people, turning away from genocide because it is better for their position, and all sorts of other shit, they are complicent in it and must be taken on now. They have ground us down for so long and constantly agitated it rather than work to alleviate it and any belief that they will one day just say "you know what, material wealth is not in our best interest as a species" is plain naivety. Look at Obama for instance who is so fast to do just as all the rest do, condemn socialism, tell blacks in ghettos to work harder, etc.
So unity is just as much our responsibility if not more. White people need to understand the mechanisms that make this vile shit happen. We need to understand that american companies outsource labor to countries where underage workers make our clothing for a dollar per day, working extremely long shifts, we need to understand how things like the SOA (school of americas based at Ft. Benning) trains warlords and dictators that have committed horrible atrocities against their own people, how our own people in this country starve because we produce food for double the people and then throw it away in to dumpsters rather than feed the homeless and so on.
So when white people start realizing that unity comes as much, if not more from us working towards standing in solidarity, rather than saying we do, we will start making some real change.
I have a huge biased towards college. Not knowledge mind you. I read an insane amount of new stuff to educate myself. I have a problem with the education institution because it is another mechanism of that system which I despise. White washed history, though sometimes a bit more liberal still very hidden behind distortion, training people to fall in line with its own goals.
I used to love sociology but I think really it does not dig to realize what causes these problems.
To really start understanding, I think it takes a lot of devotion to alternative sources beyond the school books, the internet sites, the news papers, and the television because those do not give you a scope of the horrible shit happening.
For instance, google Oaxaca, Mexico and see what you find. Google Palestine, try to find about the death squads in latin america connected with Coca Cola etc.
I highly recommend you read that book I mentioned "How Nonviolence Protects the State" by Peter Gelderloos. He makes the points much, much stronger than I and provides a lot more documentation and sources.
I also recommend a zine which is available through microcosm publishing simply titled Fascism. It is very illuminating on how our government has systematically waged a war against us post WW2 with the help of Project Paperclip. This all leads up the current state which I talked about, with the active on duty combat unit doing missions in the US.
Also read about COINTELPRO. Thats good stuff to knwo too.
I gotta jet for now. Apologies if this response seems rushed, harsh, and not as detailed.
pe(A)ce -
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i hadnt heard about the Army Unit acting as domestic enforcers... that is fuckin scary. These people have suffered the delusions of battle and war, not a great thing to take to American streets right after experiencing such things...
martial law is something i will never advocate. as for a police state, it may just be me because i dont live in a huge urban area (i'm about 20 minutes south of Oklahoma City) so i really dont experience alot of violence out here.
as for my learnings at the university here, i totally agree with you, i take what i hear in class with a grain of salt, the only things i truly accept are points crucial to my major (psychology) and even then i get to pick and choose the theories i wish to subscribe to. im just in an intro sociology class trying to make sense of what the guy talks about. i by no means claim to be an expert on the new route our discussion has gone lol just merely trying to put things into context with terminology i have learned. i strongly agree with you that it would take more effort on the part of people within the majority in a society to create unity, for example whites prefer to live in homogenous areas whereas minorities like to live in more consolidated neighborhoods.
As for the protests at the National Conventions, i heard a little bit about that actually and i dont agree with the fact that people are getting arrested for protesting but then again that determines the manner of the protest beit violent or non... this is a little beside the point but did you hear about the singer from Leftover Crack being arrested for throwing doughnuts at cops while performing a concert?
In the world theatre however, i could really care less. i believe this government has and will continue to fuck the nation by playing the role of oil grubbing "world cop". yes this is a powerful nation, but i believe in isolationism. leave everyone the fuck alone and they wont have any reason to mess with you and if they do then that is real terrorism and deserving of retribution.
I would love to get ahold of some of these book titles and read them but to be honest at the present i have to read the equivalent of 60 pages a night in my boring-ass text books and work a part time job. i will try to do it during my holiday break, depending on whether or not those bastards at walmart will let me even go home for the holidays. meh fuck it i'll quit if they dont.
And about your music, thats really cool man any tracks i can listen to? I used to be in a band once, we were ok then the guys i was playing with started acting like children. we're not even friends anymore lol. i'm trying to start something new sounding with new people. -
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