Punks vs. Nazis?
Ok, before I start let me say I'm not a nazi, and I don't claim to be a punk.
I'm just wondering why punks hate nazis as much as they do. I mean the majority of society does, but it's like punks take it to a whole different level. What I was thinking was that they hate them because they are racist and hate on other people. But it's kind of hypocritical, because some of the people on this site show the same hatred to nazis and such as the nazis would show to people. Idk I was just thinking about it and thought I would ask.
Again I'm not taking anyones side, I'm just curious.
I'm just wondering why punks hate nazis as much as they do. I mean the majority of society does, but it's like punks take it to a whole different level. What I was thinking was that they hate them because they are racist and hate on other people. But it's kind of hypocritical, because some of the people on this site show the same hatred to nazis and such as the nazis would show to people. Idk I was just thinking about it and thought I would ask.
Again I'm not taking anyones side, I'm just curious.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Segadoway on
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I love books, books are my life, i am currently reading about 4.....
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Permalink Reply by Josh on
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no prob man, i really do value all points of view as long as people respect them and can defend them. discussions are awesome! catch you on the email man.
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you're missing the point... i'm not saying its wrong to disagree with nazis.
a nazi should be given the freedom to say what they want just like anyone else, but also people have the right to criticize the beliefs of others. Much like your pastor analogy, you can stand up and say you disagree that's not the point i'm trying to make.
what i was getting at was in response to those who advocate perpetrating acts of violence on nazis just for the sake of attacking nazis. Making it your job to physically assault nazis on belief alone make you no better than a religious extremist who displays their ignorance on their sleeves.
physically inciting violence or preventing free speech over personal beliefs IS hypocritical and certainly in clear opposition to a person's free will. Yes fight the idea, yes oppose the belief and dissent, but if your aim is to incite violence (retaliation is fine and often deserved) and control the beliefs (censorship) of others who disagree with yours then what makes you different from them?
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thanks Brian. glad to see that free speech and free will is still alive and as long as there are people like us fascists will never control society. Good and bad are matters of perspective they cannot exist independently of each other.
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again ignored the heart of my statement. what they say and what they do are different issues. say what you want at the risk of criticism, do what you want but accept the consequences. Racist violence is wrong, rape is wrong, pedophilia is wrong, and the law will punish them and if they won't then they deserve retribution for their actions.
Expressing any belief is a person's unalienable right as per the Constitution. You do believe in natural rights do you not? It is when people such as these infringe upon the human rights of others with their actions that they break social contract and their human rights are void. Holding an ideal is not enough to do this so initiating violence and censorship based solely on a person holding a belief that is disagreeable is a direct attack on their human rights.
"Burn them all", while i find your choice of irony amusing, i also find it pathetically hypocritical.
"you can't fight irrational violence and hate like this with passivity and peace" i never stated as such i merely stated that expressing such beliefs in words alone is not worth physical violent retaliation. I am not pacifist as i firmly believe that violence can be met with violence given the proper justification.
No one disagrees with you that nazis are bad people with distorted views nor do i disagree with you that the world would be better without their racist beliefs. But to adopt the fascist views that you oppose, even under the guise that you're trying to make the world a better place, is to sacrifice free expression and free will. Who's next? the christians? the anarchists? it may start with benevolent means but i see your rationale spiraling out of control into full blown fascism. This i cannot support, the price is too great.
Just fyi, the same type of loaded emotional speech you are using is the same style used by Hitler to persuade his people to kill jews, try to actually back up what you're saying with logic, just trying to be helpful.
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yeah shut git-mo down but i still dont want them re-located to my country. personally though i do believe in retaliation. you and i both know that the extremists that we claim to be fighting have committed ceremonious beheadings of our journalists and citizens overseas.
Assuming the people we were waterboarding actually WERE combatants, i feel that the Geneva convention should NOT protect terrorists as they are not a combatant nation but a barbaric religious sect who have committed atrocities against non-combatants of this nation. If they actually WERE combatants of that terror organization they deserved what they got.
personally though a war on nazism is just as idiotic as the war on terror. what kind of a world do we live in where people can be so arrogant as to think they can wage war and defeat ideals. beliefs are immaterial and are therefore indestructible. it is all we can do to defeat and overthrow the regimes that would seek to abuse and control the people they claim to serve. -
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true beliefs are behind the violence, but words alone do not cause physical harm, the nazis can be ignored or rebuked by the masses that disagree with them. which is why the reich will never come back. too many people have witnessed the atrocities committed under such a regime and nothing like it will ever exist again.
as long as people believe in free speech and free expression nothing like this will ever happen again on a national scale. right now nazi violence is reduced to a minimum (as in random assaults on neighborhood and foreign businesses) and is a far cry from ww2. Am i saying its tolerable? no i am not. i am just stating that with things the way they are now the nazi movement is quite easily contained.
If such atrocities happen they should be punished. If such beliefs are expressed they should be rebuked, vehemently. As long as nazis are non-violent in their expressions i see no reason to censor them or incite violence against them for being different despite their distorted views.
Ideals don't kill people or start wars, it is the actions of the followers of such ideals that make a mess of things, and that's what we should be concerned with. Hate crimes are intolerable,but simply stating that one is a nazi national-socialist is nothing more than a political affiliation no different than our democrats and republicans and your conservative and labour parties.
Beliefs are the excuses people use to justify their actions. Whereas beliefs can be misguided in their agendas it is the actions perpetrated under such ideology that cause the problem in the physical world.
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bingo! its often the onlookers rather than the participants that initiate the violence at nazi and kkk rallies. just watch the footage
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Permalink Reply by Kobalos on
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Agreed, when one person's rights encroaches and abuses anothers rights to equal treatment, it's unacceptable. The trouble is that people can 'massage' their views with evocative or false reasoning to support their encroaching cause.
I think the crucial thing is to counter the insidious spread of views that some are better than others and some are unworthy. That's where Nazi's fall down most of all - they spread propoganda against others to gain power.
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but the catch still remains, who are you to adopt fascism for the sake of removing fascism? when is it ok? who's responsibility and why? and where will such censoring of belief systems end? will it stop with just nazis? these are questions you must answer before granting such authority or taking such matters into your own hands. The nazis failed to do that and look what happened... they killed jews, catholics, homosexuals, and even "gypsies". what you apply to someone else, even if it is for "the betterment of mankind" can be applied to other groups for destructive means, and in the end what makes you better than them?
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