Punks vs. Nazis?
Ok, before I start let me say I'm not a nazi, and I don't claim to be a punk.
I'm just wondering why punks hate nazis as much as they do. I mean the majority of society does, but it's like punks take it to a whole different level. What I was thinking was that they hate them because they are racist and hate on other people. But it's kind of hypocritical, because some of the people on this site show the same hatred to nazis and such as the nazis would show to people. Idk I was just thinking about it and thought I would ask.
Again I'm not taking anyones side, I'm just curious.
I'm just wondering why punks hate nazis as much as they do. I mean the majority of society does, but it's like punks take it to a whole different level. What I was thinking was that they hate them because they are racist and hate on other people. But it's kind of hypocritical, because some of the people on this site show the same hatred to nazis and such as the nazis would show to people. Idk I was just thinking about it and thought I would ask.
Again I'm not taking anyones side, I'm just curious.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Josh on
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well enjoy your migraine, and you weaken your own argument with your senseless name calling making YOU the "belligerent pansy". i believe in intelligent and reasonable discussion but you seem to be incapable of doing such a thing as you believe that slander and bashing another person's character (that you have never met before i might add) leads me to believe that you are not as upright and moral as you believe you are.
I do not support the idea of "bending over backwards" for nazis as you so put it. I only believe that freedom of speech which they do exercise and have the right to exercise should be combated with free speech in an opposite direction, a social form of Newton's "every action has an equal and opposite reaction". When things become violent it is perfectly acceptable to fight for what you believe in. It is the responsibility of the people, to stand up and show that nazis are not appreciated but violence should not be used until violence has been brought upon them.
Freedom of speech and assembly only goes so far and i understand this. But because i believe in a libertarian society and people should have as much freedom as possible, anyone can say what they want and anyone can do what they want as long as it doesnt interfere with the human rights of another person.
If nazis were standing outside of a jewish business causing conflict, something should be done of course. However silly little things like parades and other like forms of nazi demonstration are easily combated peacefully until there is violence.
They do have the freedom to say what they want, but we have the freedom to ignore them or to gather together to speak louder than them. When there is violence, we have the responsibility to stand up for ourselves regardless of the law.
That being said, i reject your statement in where you assumed that i believed that we should "embrace the cultural colours" of the nazis. Statements such as this are a logical fallacy as you assume something about me you can not logically defend. Nazis are scum but even scum have human rights until they do something to interfere with the rights of another and until they do this there is not a single reason to violate that social contract. I believe in the concept of natural rights so such things must be combated in the same manner until social contract is violated and violence and suspension of human right can ensue.
As for your statement of "moral progress": NO i am not happy with the world in which i live. We live in a world where no one can trust their government, where rapes and murders happen as a daily occurrence by the thousands, a world where war and intolerance run freely. Why should i be happy with that and why should anyone else? The world already is as you so aptly put it "a revolving sphere of steaming shit".
Contrary to what you assumed about me: I have accepted that social conflict is a necessary part of everyday life, different belief systems clash on a day to day basis, its nothing new. However hatred is not. Should people be more tolerant? yes. Should people stop standing up for themselves and accept everything without question? NO. What you fail to understand is that you can disagree with something and still be tolerant of it. And when it no longer becomes tolerable (racial segregation, hate crimes, religious hate mongering) you fight it. Moral progress is NOT any person or organization deciding what is best for all. Moral progress begins with the individual deciding where they stand and making their own sphere of influence a better place.
I understand that no society will ever accept or be tolerant of EVERY belief system, its impossible. What i simply want is a world where everyone can recognize and respect basic human rights. This goes especially for the nazis. At some point they must abandon their hate, but it is only the right of humanity to fight injustice when it is wrought not to punish injustice preemptively. I'm all for combating nazism, but i will do so with the rights i have at my disposal rather than embracing fascism. To decide what is right and what is wrong for a society is not for any individual or group to assert on the masses because it eliminates free will.
You aren't even trying to listen or to keep an open mind, i will be surprised if you read this entire post. Bring on the name calling, Englishman. : )
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Permalink Reply by Segadoway on
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Capitalism, Democracy and Nationalism will never succeed... end of story.
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those already have succeeded in the fact that they have manifested themselves on a mass societal level, anarchy however has not and never will. Not saying that democracy or capitalism are perfect or even benevolent in their function but they are real and do actually exist, so i refute your statement.
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exactly which is why anarchy won't work. you can't get much of anyone to work together ALL the time. there will always be conflict and people vying for power. i would be an anarchist too if everyone were capable of respecting the basic human rights of others. This is my point of view in my arguments but i argue with anarchists who want to adopt fascism to get rid of nazis so the plot thickens lol good post.
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music. there are many songs written by punk artists that hate on nazis lol not saying that they don't deserve it but it has become trendy to hate nazis.
politics. Nazis are fascists (uber right wing ideals heavy government control), most punks claim to be anarchists (no government ultimate freedom); the two political ideals are supposed to be polar opposites.
hope this helped
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Permalink Reply by Lis on
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Why do punks hate nazi's as much as they do?
The answer to that is definitely going to be different for each person as the reasons why could be anything, but it's unfortunate (although, not surprising) that most people are ignorant of what 'Nazi' actually means.
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I mean there's an obvious line between what's factually believable and what's completely ridiculous concerning the entire subject of 'Nazi's'. So people have many stereotypes about Nazi's which are not always true. To look at anything as objectively as possible and to not take all of the information you see as absolute truth, but to make your own conclusions based on decisive reasoning is something I totally respect.
Hate something or love it, but understand it first.
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i totally agree that is why i do not advocate the blind initiation of violence against nazis just for the sake of them being nazis. people get far too hung up on names and labels to really understand what they're fighting for these days.
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Nazi happens to be one of those words that people on both sides totally mis-use, mis-understand and mis-represent way too often. I've heard all kinds of ignorant things people will say, but one of the stupidest has to be, 'you're German - I hate you, you're all nazis!' Asshole comments like that are a reflection of just how shallow people's knowledge actually is.
Obviously, the name nazi carries with it a huge, huge stigma. A lot of this has to do with ignorance. The majority of people prefer to to live in ignorance rather than, at the cost of being labeled an outsider, live an informed life.
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indeed, i'm already socially unacceptable where i live anyhow, why be ignorant to boot lol people are what they are and you can't perpetuate mindless social division because no two people are EXACTLY alike and never will be. There are groups but there are slight differences in opinion from each member to each member.
As an intelligent anarchist once told me (and believe me i haven't talked to many) blanket statements are just that- a blanket. They allow their users to blanket themselves with ignorance so that they may further perpetuate their false sense of security.
whether that false sense of security lies within "the norm" or within their race etc. it is a major part of what is wrong with society today, too much emphasis on social division and not enough individuality.
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