Punk Houses/Squatting
Not that there is such a definition of punk, I am called one. I am an anarchist and obviously have a mohawk. Recently I have been criticized because I rent an apartment in the East Village off St. Mark's Place. They criticize me because I am not a squatter. The only reason that I live in the East Village is because I do freelance computer repair and make enough to pay the rent. I am not forced to squat. But I know that I am not the only punk rocker who pays rent, because paying rent to me is not voiding my beliefs and values. I even know many punks who live at home or an apartment. So could anyone on this website please enlighten me and tell me why I am criticized. Most squatters to my knowledge are crusties, but I don't think that anyone needs to say anything to me because I am more of a street punk than a crustie.
Any answer would be appreciated.
Any answer would be appreciated.
Views: 35
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bob on
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I see nothing wrong with being a punk and owning property. I'm quite comfortable living in a middle class conservative suburb and paying my property taxes and mortgage.
I'm sure many punk rockers have decent housing and pay their way. Personally, I'd rather sleep in my own bed in my master bedroom every night....
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Permalink Reply by Mohawk Joe on
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Most of the punks that I talk to about this issue, whether they squat or not, all say the same thing. They all say it's about your attitude and the way you live your life. As I said most punks don't have a problem with paying rent, but I want to know why the others have that problem. Maybe one day, I will go to London to vacation and squat there. That would be an experience.
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I discussed this with my two schnauzers, who have me very well trained.
It's raining tonight, and they much prefer their house to the outdoors.
Maybe I am a squatter since they seem to think my house and bed are theirs.... :).
BTW, dogs are supposedly color limited, but mine have noticed the color in my 'hawk. They seem quite fascinated by it.
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Permalink Reply by Talia on
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I don't think I could ever squat, nor is it something that I associate with punks that live in today's society.
Personally I think that to get anywhere in the world, you have to be part of it. If you can do it with amazing hair then all the more power to you; but simply devaluing you because you don't squat simply doesn't make sense in my mind at all. I think it's fantastic that you have a decent paying job, are intelligent and do not compromise your integrity or your appearance to get by. =)
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Thank you for you response. BTW, I love my job, I work for myself, no boss.
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Permalink Reply by Sonic Architect on
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I am fascinated with squatting and such and hope to start doing this soon....anyway to the person who mentioned that squatting is not that associated with punk...not in the more seen circles of street punks but the anarcho scene definitely has its share of squatters.
They criticize because they are at war..squatters that is. As anarchists we do not believe in any form of hierarchy, exploitation, or the like. The guaranteed rights of shelter and food are not in fact guaranteed at all and you have to pay for such things which is a glaring hypocrisy in the US capitalist deMOCKracy. It fuels a cycle of work consume sleep. Even for those that are independent such as yourself and have no boss, you lose your money to somebody exploiting people who are supposedly guaranteed shelter. Other issues such as gentrification and thus class boundaries, racism, and other such thigns are also at play in a more subtle way.
Other issues are even more important as to why most anarchists squat. It is not to freeload most often but to reinvest into the community. Buildings are condemned and sealed up for decades allowing places for drugs and other social concerns to happen while the owner collects a tax break. The purpose then is to supply that guaranteed right of shelter and take it back as public space. It could easily be turned into shelter for peopel who need it but certain people would not make money, or even lose money if that happens, so we take it by force. A lot of squatters again, do not freeload but legitimately make these spaces their own. They fix up the buildings, they demonstrate that peopel can in fact take care of themselves without being manipulated by governments, and they ultimately reinvest into communities. A lot of them end up being social centers for arts, literature, workshops, and shops for things like bike repairs or food not bombs.
It is all based on the same idea as dumpster diving. Everything in this country and world is made in surplus and when we are done, just toss it aside instead of passing it on to somebody who could use it.
Street punk, crusty, hip hop artist, or somebody not even involved with punk, squatters are made from all races, all genres, and all types. The ones you have come across seem to be politically driven and them telling you this is their way to try to get you to stop being exploited by rent =) Not always the personable or best way but to each their own. If they know you at all and know you make money without a boss, to them and others involved in resistance, it is the next logical step =)
And to clear things up, squatting does not mean you live in squalor with rain dripping in on you. You find the building, you fix it up and you make it your home. A lot have electricity, heating, plumbing, and are no different than being in an old apartment building...only you pay no rent and did a lot of work usually to make the place look nice.
good reads on the subject are a couple of books from crimethinc...check out Off the Map and also Evasion. Their book Recipes of Disaster also has a brief (in the grand scheme of how to's) chapter on how to start this practice.
As anarchists we need to understand though that the process of breaking out of comfort zones is very hard to do when your whole life is based on that idea. It is unrealistic to expect every person to quit their jobs and start squatting right away. Its more liek a slow build to a beautiful crescendo of resistance =) As long as you are doing something to make some form of change, that is what counts and if you are doign such, don't let people tell you what you need, and need not do and try not to take it to heart ya know?
pe(A)ce
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Thanks for that detailed response. As noted, I am called a street punk, and squatting was never considered by myself until recently. I have taken in the idea of anarchy for years and have been practicing it as much as possible. Eventually one day I might move to a squat, it seems like fun, definately if I plan to travel across the country. Even if I still live in an apartment, I am still breaking out of comfort zones. That's why I moved to nyc from Ohio in the first place=) But anyway, most of the squatters that I have met don't really care about my living situation. They say it's all in your attitude and how you live your life.
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They are right in what they say but often times, people are very harsh with words and confrontational which can be very counter-productive to most people because when we feel challenged, our natural defense is to engage in debates and arguments and impose or idea/will. It is a barbaric approach to getting people influenced or to get them to think most times.
Saying its in attitude and how you live your life is empty rhetoric if their is not a detailed and compassionate/civil basis to lay out for that claim. If people from all circles instead maybe tried a more friendly and approachable way and gave INFORMATION as to why people would want to consider this way of life, or why they do it as a form of direct action protest, we might be better off.
Militancy certainly has its times but trying to get people to see your point and consider it often does not get anywhere by this approach. As much as I believe in and advocate direct action, it is very often misunderstood and spun as chaotic violence and bullying. For sure fascists and homophobic nazis must be combated and when they show up to shows, or events trying to spread their bullshit belief in hierarchy and superiority, you must battle back. But hitting one of them with a stick or kicking them in the face is not going to make them go home and rethink WHY they are involved in that shit. It WILL make them go silent and find other ways to promote hate such as the internet. Going home with busted faces and/or bruised egos makes you consider more so how to go about it without getting fucked up where as a civil dialog one on one between people can be more effective for that typ of thing. Literature and info that shows people how they too are being fucked over etc. Same applies to all issues be it various -isms and phobias, globalization/protests, or squatting.
It is good that you take in the ideas and put them in to action how you can currently. It is a constant battle and some people cannot simply just quit things and go into that type of extreme life where you have no steady income, threat of eviction at anytime or threat of arrest for theft or scamming. I believe people should always be striving to challenge themselves and work towards being as autonomous as possible and not always rely on comforts. Again though, not everybody can do that easily or at all. People have young children or are sick themselves or have to take care of family, others still have no ground support for it or way to get involved and all the rhetoric in the world does not make leaving the comfort of your apartment which is steady, into unknown grounds where you live every moment in threat, any easier. Having other people who think likewise in your group or circle of friends certainly helps a bit in a way. Sure you only learn really by doing and trying, but it is nice to know your not alone in the shit should it fly.
On a different note about squats...the city I reside closest to had a squat and an online website that reported news and info about the city and events ran an article about them. They called the group an "environmental collective" and as I read the comments by peopel responding it was so fucked up and misunderstood. People drawing links to terror cells, saying they are no good, that people who do that are only carrying out insane religious or political agendas and then cited The explosion in an apartment in NYC during the 60's that was caused when a bomb being worked on by the Weathermen exploded and killed the people in the house. It was sad to see how scared people are and how when challenged with the unknown, the first reaction is fear. fucked up and reflective to how our social interactions are structured now. Never mind that they grow their own garden, have a printing press, do there own silk screening, completely renovated the home by themselves, repair bicycles for the community, and host workshops to promote a DIY ethic.
anyway, keep at it and keep breaking down comfort zones =)
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I noticed how you said that many people stick to a set of ideas but don't promote them to others. This is true with some people I have seen in nyc. They say that they are anarchists or whatever, but all they do is drink all day, not working toward a goal of education others on the benefits of the ideology.
On a side note, the main reason I'm still in an apartment is because I need a place for some of my customers to bring their computers. It's more of a shop in a sense. So I may have an apartment as a place to work, but that doesn't mean that I have to live there. But really I wouldn't call my apartment steady, because it has sometimes been a struggle to pay the rent on time.
But I have given up a lot. For example I gave up tv, credit cards, ipods, etc..
The only things that I own are some clothes, my one laptop, so I can fix other people's computer, and myself. I really love living minimally. I never know if someone is going to call me to fix their computer. Some days I make nothing, some days I make a couple hundred. I live life one day at a time. I cannot live knowing that I have to work 5 days a week from 9-5. I want each day to be something different.
On a final note, is there anyone else on this forum who is doing the same as myself? Is there anyone else who gives up some or most of life's comforts to lead a more spontaneous and unpredictable life?
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Permalink Reply by Anim on
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I'm 20 years old and live at college for now but I have no credit cards, no "job", no cell phone, and I try not to consume needlessly. I buy things to support companies that I see as being ethical and reasonable, when I do need to buy things and I spend money on books.
I play poker to support myself and I take it quite seriously so I can do very well for myself, but when I'm running bad it's pretty rough because I don't have a job or any way to support myself or replenish my bankroll to keep playing, so then I try to find some dead end job for a few weeks, untill I have enough to start playing again.
I'm a believer in the concept that "There is no greater tragedy than doing nothing for fear of doing too little" however I don't see squatting as being effective in any way. You take rent out of the hands of the bourgeois or petty bourgeois, however they will easily fill your spot.
Marx was correct when he said that the capitalists would produce wonderful things and increase the standard of living for most of the workers of the world, though greatly disproportionate to their own. Workers would have to be more educated, even if not WELL educated, but educated enough to educate themselves further. Laborers would have more than if they were completely impovershed, enough to revolt.
I feel that squatting actually has a negative effect, in that I would think it tends to cut people off from the world (not to mention a lot of crust punks I know don't smell too nice). How are the laborers of the world supposed to unite when they're all squatting in random places, getting arrested for dumb things and not using the tools to end the opression of capitalism, because they don't take advantage of the tools, that the very existance and perpetuation of capitalism furnishes us with, to destroy itself.
If we're going to rebel, let's rebel in useful, effective and efficient ways. Perhaps squatting would be useful when faced with no other, more useful choices. But let's get serious here, there are better ways to hurt the geo-politcal superstructure that is in place. And lots of them are hampered by the fact that one is squatting.
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You make some interesting points so I must engage in discussion =p
"You take rent out of the hands of the bourgeois or petty bourgeois, however they will easily fill your spot."
You are certainly right at this point but there in lies the point perhaps of doing it. Like all direct action based things, they should inspire people and I think ultimately, no matter what you will have people who get inspired by various things, and others who don't. If people all followed the mentality of "they just fill your spot" then we never get anywhere. That is what has gone on for years and years, that we should just accept this or that for whatever reason. Surely squatting is not for everybody but it does make a difference in communities, or has the potential to.
In general I think that is what is keeping sopcial revolution form happening is people always disagreeing on the tactics. There is no blueprint for it and in my opinion, anyone that say they have the blueprint is just another person looking for that way to be above others and inflate the ego.
We have peaceful protesters say the black bloc is counterproductive and this is echoed by the media but I know for a fact that direct action does inspire people to do more in the cause. I saw The Weather Underground and learned about them and there bombing campaign in the 60's and said that's it, I need to do something to change things. So that set into motion a person who became devoted to a revolutionary cause 40 years later =) Squatting is no different. It is just another way for people to get involved with how they see fit.
Somebody awhile ago made a really great point when it comes to division by tactics between those peacefully protesting vs. those committing destructive acts against property. I will fuck this quote up no doubt but bare with me. The vandal looks at the person carrying the sign who is now criticizing the vandal for the tactic and says "it is not your job to critique MY tactic..." I really cannot get the rest but it goes on to make the point (which is obviously true in our world) that peaceful protest alone, largely changes nothing. We have eloquent people who march, and then fearless people dressed in black to put the exclamation point on what it is they are saying. Looking back at Vietnam, millions marched and protested, our government kept carpet bombing. Same with Iraq. They ignore peaceful protest because they can control peaceful protest.
"I feel that squatting actually has a negative effect, in that I would think it tends to cut people off from the world (not to mention a lot of crust punks I know don't smell too nice)."
The crusty comment made me smile and laugh =p Though I never get tired of hearing dirty crusty jokes (because I myself am one) I do at times get tired of explaining it. This is of course not a universal truth but I figure I should mention that a lot of people refuse deodorant and chemicals which is why the smell rises. It is not that they are squatting, it is just a choice to break that social injustice of "cleanliness is next to godliness" If you are not clean, you are an uncivilized savage. I rinse not shower mind you, no soap, maybe 4 times a year and I do laundry in my bathtub with no detergent maybe twice. Currently I do not squat and I smell human. Ultimately, most of the reasons sold to us for using soap are scare tactics of bacteria and disease. My brother got a really bad staph infection and he showers twice daily with soaps. I showered twice last year, was involved with cutting myself due to BPD symptoms and not cleaning wounds, constantly wearing the same sweat soaked and dirty clothing, never got one thing. Same reasoning sold to people of why not eat out of a dumpster. We have a belief sold to us that the minute something leaves the shelf in a store, it is contaminated which just is not true. Obviously logic applies that you don't eat meat that has been sitting in a dumpster in the sun for a week. Then again most dumpster divers are vegan people eating things like bread and veggies. I have been on a pretty regular and steady diet of dumpstered fruit, veggies, and bread for a year and not sick. Never got the incurable disease that killed me in a day. Point is, if your gonna get fucked up or sick, it will happen no matter what you do.
It does not go without saying though that some people will be just drunk and lazy and not shower =p and are not acting in solidarity with any political cause, but just too wasted or lazy to rinse off. Maybe they give others like myself a bad rep =p
In theory I could see how one would think people are disconnected by squatting but would you elaborate? Do you mean without phones or contact etc? Because that is just ridiculously false and one of those vicious urban myths about squats that the slave drivers perpetuate. A lot of squats become social centers and are just like homes or apartment buildings. In NYC things like C-Squat (now a collective) or ABC No Rio (I believe started as a squat) became huge centers of thriving music, activism, and cultural centers that are still around. C Squat obviously well known for housing the bands Leftover Crack, Choking Victim, and musicians involved in them, hosted regular shows as did ABC No Rio. ABC also functions as an infoshop/cultural center where people can learn about radical ideas.
Even the squat in the city near me (which is now the Birdhouse Collective since they got the deed) has shows, internet access, and regular workshops to educate and empower people with DIY ethics.
Europe has an even larger squat scene where people have squatter rights as long as they move in a bed/mattress, chair and make it a home and not just a place to sleep and do drugs. Last year there was a huge fight to save a squat in Holland which was a hub of cultural activity. Squats over there regularly host shows and bands as well. Antidote from Holland practice and I believe live also in a squat.
So I do not think they are disconnected unless it is their choice. A lot of anarchists reject things like internet and cell phones etc and prefer more emotive and natural means of communications like letters in the mail =)
If you meant they are disconnected in some other way, please let me know what you mean so I have something to think about =)
"If we're going to rebel, let's rebel in useful, effective and efficient ways. Perhaps squatting would be useful when faced with no other, more useful choices. But let's get serious here, there are better ways to hurt the geo-politcal superstructure that is in place. And lots of them are hampered by the fact that one is squatting."
Who's to say what is useful and effective? A good thought on the back of a how-to graffiti guide says "If graffiti changed nothing, it would be legal" Same applies to squatting, shoplifting, file sharing, dumpster diving, salting vending machines, and so on. There is what works for us personally, and what does not but in the end, it is every individual effort that takes money and power away from the ruling elite and into the powers of ourselves that comes together to make a difference. Fight the war how we can as individuals, but always fight the war on every front.
pe(A)ce
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Well, I became really mentally fucked in the early parts of this decade. Depression, and borderline personality disorder symptoms took over my life. I became agoraphobic and a nervous wreck that never went outside for a period of 6 months when I was 24 or so.
I sat on computers all day and night trying to connect and find that miracle cure and silently vowed I would overcome and when I could, I would live life very full. I then started really getting into radical theory and ideas and started thinking a lot more on the situation. I was suicidal a lot and I told myself, they fucked with me all my life and they would not care if I am dead so I have to stay alive and make a difference for myself and for somebody or something. Or at least work to try.
So, in recovering from this I had to constantly step out of comfort zones. Driving to the city for shows for example was horrendously uncomfortable for me. I feared people, getting lost, getting in an accident etc. I feared not having control but eventually realized we never have control anyway. I could have sat in my house and a tree could have crashed it in and I died. This happened to my girlfriend (she did not die but a tree did in fact CRUSH her home) so no matter what, we can die any second. In the safest neighborhood or in the most impoverished 'hood
I now constantly promote people to step out of those comfort zones and live and have an interesting life. Whether its taking the punk album out of your cd player and listening to something new to you, rejecting a set stereotype, or more intense forms of this such as giving up your job and house, hitching or train hopping. "A little routine kills a lot of people"
Currently I have no job and collect SSI which I am vowing to give up soon. I got rid of my cable TV and actually never watch TV unless at a friends. I am working towards living self-sufficiently and sustaining off of dumpsters, scams, and tactics to acquire money without working or pan handling. I recently gave up meat products and went vegetarian and over a year ago got more intense in my principle of straight edge and rejected any form of medication for my mental states and instead make MYSELF feel worthy and happy by living a life where I feel as such. Next week I continue my break out of traveling to cities and travel to a completely new city, not knowing where I am going, and confronting my mild anxiety that is still left.
and in all honesty, I have never been happier or more excited or thankful to be alive than now. Never going back to that routine you speak of (9-5) =) I used to teach karate, and then worked a shitty corporate pizza job, and it was the worst time (the pizza one not the karate one) and I was always depressed at the situation. The cooks were all cool and we all got along but we all understood the misery and wrongness of the situation. Making minimum wage while managers and CEOs made millions and we were lucky if we got a 5 cent raise every 6 months. Fuck that shit.
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