Vegies?-all true punks answer
i don't want to label my self but i consider myself a punk i listen to punk, im an anarchist, and i hang out with punks. What I want to know is whats with the vegetarian thing, i don't get it. Sure animal rights is wonderful and necessary but i know i don't and many other don't have the money to buy vegetarian/vegan food or free range meat. Also, its probably true that if animals had the brains and thumbs they would eat us, so just comment on you thoughts of vegetarianism, peta, veganism, and so on.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joey on
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I'm vegetarian not because I disagree with eating meat but because I disagree with the way the animals are kept. Also, I find it's cheaper not eating meat because meat here is expensive.
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Permalink Reply by Alex on
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yeah the treatment is really bad for animals and it does make me feel bad, i live in Pennsylvania and veggies and shits expensive here
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Permalink Reply by Sonic Architect on
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I support vegans/vegetarians and animal right completely and am glad things like the ALF and peta (though at times really sketchy and guilty of using manipulated info) exist in our world right now.
The thing, as with all major issues in our society is that this is not a black and white issue. There is A LOT to be taken into consideration and not just saying "meat is murder"
First off, factory farming is horrible and animals in my opinion should not be bred solely for the purpose of being farmed and while they grow to that point they are often kept in the utmost worst conditions and treated inhumanely. Another thing I find very shitty is that there are so many of these places doing the different things. You have some people skinning animals for furs and others using the meat while discarding the rest. I really blame this on free market capitalism because both are trying to make the dollar with the product.
This is another point, over time in our history on this earth, hunter-gatherer tribes did eat animals but they used everything. They made tools and items from bones, the made clothing from the skin, and got sustenance from the meat. In this regard I do not think consuming meat or using leather is wrong. What IS wrong in my opinion is that animals are being completely exploited and not having a chance ever to be in a natural environment. Torturing them with product testing or vivisection is awful just as breeding them for the slaughter is awful. I feel if we want to consume meat and use things such as leather, we should strip away this disgraceful to everything capitalist system (and not JUST for the animals sake but for our own as well!) and start doing it responsibly and out of needs, not for money. If this ruins fast food restaurants, that is great! If a lot of clothing stores go out that is great as well! Those places don't give a shit about you, me, or the animals they kill. All they see is the green in them.
Second point is health issues. Some people have blood deficiencies and it is better if they consume meat for things such as protein and iron and other vitamins. To tell these people that they are blatantly wrong for consuming something that makes their lives a bit easier is in my opinion very fascist and counter-productive. I am not saying anybody should live solely on meat because there are other ways to get these things such as nuts and supplements (though taking multi vitamins that come from pharmaceutical corporations you do not know what you are getting, IF you get anything at all.) There are negative health issues with meats such as cholesterol and fat but consuming it in moderation can have benefits for you. This leads to the third issue in play which was already mentioned, PRICE. I think for all the rhetoric that organizations like PETA put out, they have offered no viable solution to back it. Meat Is Murder are strong words but if you want more people to hop on board you need to acknowledge things such as socio-economics and health issues in this. I have drastically reduced my intake of meat to support the animal rights movement and if I could do so I would eliminate it completely. What stands in my way is probably what stand in a lot of others (besides marketing assaults and exploitation) and that affordability. I live on a very limited income and honestly, I do not get enough money per month to make it by. I can spend about 70 dollars on food for a whole month. That buys you a lot of ramen and pasta and some cereal. It cant even really afford meat but I get that from friends who cook for me and when you live in extreme poverty you understand you cannot always be choosy with what you get.
Anyway, if the anti-meat agenda wants to make more strides forward I believe they need to start offering products that are affordable AND accessible to everyone. If you walk into a store you will notice that natural products are much more expensive. Soy milk for instance is much larger in cost than regular milk and frankly, myself and I assume most others cannot afford it and when it comes down to breathing yourself and being able to live, or supporting a largely holier than thou (at this point in time) movement, you will default to keeping yourself alive. Plain and simple. A lot of people involved in this movement are activists with some form of income or have connections in a network but largely, most of us do not. It also depends on where you live.
I know that a lot of issues are reliant on the market and capitalism and if you really cannot see that I think you should really start examining things. When people start actually standing against it and not just with rhetoric but actually doing something about it, no matter how big or small, things will change a bit more perhaps.
Like I said, if vegans and vegetarians wants us to stop eating meat, produce and get to us reliable substitutes that when we buy it will still allow us to pay our rent, bills, and all together stay alive. Fact is, not everybody can squat, hitch, or dumpster dive their existence and due to that it is up to vegans to get this stuff out there and distributed at a cost people can afford. You show me a way to go vegan, and stay alive with enough vitamins, carb in take, protein etc and I will do it in a heart beat but I am not gonna spend every penny I have to support something if it means I live an even more miserable existence. That is not to say I wont pay a little more, but almost double the price? No offense but fuck you. Compromise on both sides of the line.
That is my belief no the whole thing in "short." =) I probably left a lot out or forgot some ideas in my head on this.
One last thing, if you are interested in human rights but nto ready to, or cannot completely take the plunge in going completely vegan, there are ways you can help the cause. One major one is stop consuming at major exploiters of animals such as McDonalds or Burger King or any fast food restaurant that relies on factory farming. Do not order chicken or burgers there. Another way is to do corporate research and find out which companies test products on animals and boycott them. Do thorough research though and find out which company is owned by what parent company etc. A company itself may not test no animals but its parent company may have ties with another one that does. If you want to do that be prepared to do A LOT of reading and research. There used to be a good site but it is being redone currently though it still offers good links to trace lobbyist donations etc. www.buyblue.org Another good resource that may help you is www.corpwatch.org
Best wishes and keep resisting!
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completely agree with that cause the beef is pretty expensive as it is and say you buy $5 bucks of beef the organic free range is $20 for the same amount and tofu and stuff just dosnt really cut it and is more expensive, also i haven't eaten fast food in like 3 years. My opinion about peta is that they are to forceful and cruel about it like when they used to dump red paint on people with fur coats, those things cost a shit load protest and shit but dont destroy someones stuff.
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Also, in regards to the line "all true punks answer....this is not a punk issue, this is a human issue. as is everything. Racism, sexism, capitalism, exploitation, the gay rights movement, animal rights, all of it is human and needs to be tackled by humans and not just punks.
Sorry for this little outburst and I mean no harm with it but I really think things like draw more lines than erase them and as an anarchist myself, I try to work on erasing all the lines I can that already exist and get perpetuated by everyone, including other radicals. Like how a lot of anarchists feel that if you look like a punk and have spikes on your clothing or a colored mohawk, you cannot understand or be a part of the effort for example. =p
Again, not meant to attack you or anything at all =) Just something to maybe think on. Anyway, I am glad you posted this topic. I greatly enjoy engaging in heavy stuff and actually am incapable of making small talk with people haha.
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i know but i wanted some punks to answer instead of little scene kids, and emo kids that think they're punk answering it. My sisters a vegatierian and shes into indie bands and shit and you know i was wondering if it was a punk thing cause if you do something wrong you know how critical people are in the punk community alot of the time and i didnt want to be kicked out of that too cause everyone else pretty much hates me already
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fair enough good person. =)
I know a lot of vegetarian or vegan people and really, only a few of them are in any form associated with the punk scene. There are a lot in punk, usually more in the anarchist-crust scene but I know a girl who is not in that but just into general punk and she is vegan. Then one of my best friends is an electronic and noise performer and does not like punk at all and he is vegetarian. Same with most of the others I know..usually more in the experimental music scenes...now that I think of it that is kind of odd =) Considering the size of scenes etc, punks seem to be uot done in social awareness by other scenes (of course besides the much smaller niche crust scene)
I hear on the critical nature of the punk scene. It is out of control and bullshit. I about 10 years older give or take than most of the people that go to the shows around here and all they do is gossip and play the game ya know? Then the other faction who is more into crust or old school american style HC look down on me for having spiked hair, patches, spikes etc. I once told a stor about getting jammed by cops for walking behind a plaza at around 3am and they just scolded me with shit like "if you dont wanna get bothered dont dress that way/dont be behind the plaza" etc or "get a job so you dont have to go through dumpsters for what you need" or, and this is my favorite "you should have just complied with the officer when he asked your name so maybe the next person wont be treated so badly" how the fuck could ANYBODY say that coming from a punk background??? It literally blew my mind and it still does.
But yeah, the whole punk rock circle clique on both sides annoys me and ultimately I don't get into it. I don't really care if they dont like me for whatever reason because I know what I am. I know a lot of the people in my area involved in the crust scene probably are not actually into living a resistant lifestyle and really do not know shit about it as is evidenced by such comments as the dumpster/job one.
anyway, keep your head up if people hate you. fuck them. As long as you are being yourself, not fucking with people or treating people like shit, fuck them and their clique. Go to the shows, enjoy the music, if your into radicalism, do it still and don't get caught. A lone radical can be just as effective and supportive towards the effort as direct action groups like the alf or elf or independent groups.
take care
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yeah the punk scene where i am we have to places with punks Dear Lakes and Hampton. Hampton is annoying but most of them are like the older punks over 30 and shit which gets kinda weird and dear lakes is high school kids and they actual seem to care about what punk stands for but as a whole i sometimes do feel that the punks not in bands just dont give a shit about what it stands for.
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I have found that the older ones are people into American style hardcore like 7 Seconds and Minor Threat and other like bands. Though I am close to that age group more so than most people that attend punk shows, I enjoy it all very much and see no reason for bickering between that stuff. Don't like street or crust? fine and if you do, that is awesome as well.
I think there are some weird dynamics that happen in punk and attitudes. For instance the older people that were into things like Abrasive Wheels, Exploited, UK 82 bands sometimes end up dropping the fashion and beliefs for jobs, families, etc but still believe in the music but feel uncomfortable by the younger kids who say they sold out, or still others that say "aren't you a little old for that?"
It sucks that the scene has adopted a policy that once you reach a certain age you are no longer relevant in the scene. Being 30 with spiked hair and ratty clothes is no longer acceptable it seems =/
anyway, fuck them =)
"do whats true, true to you
don't let the world tell you what to do
there's no wrong, travel on"
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Permalink Reply by Bob on
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Agree with you completely. Then again, I'm 50. Act, feel, and think more like a 30 y/o, although every now and then my body tells me when I'm doing something it's not meant to anymore.
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I am already gettin in that boat a bit. I am only 27, going on 28 but I was not kind to my body growing up and took some injuries and lets say that those old stories of certain injuries throbbing still when it gets real cold are indeed true =) Not anything that makes me stop dead in my tracks from pain but it is a reminder and discomfort. Though I think this is getting a bit better since I started taking vitamins and actually eating wisely and not intaking so much junk and shit.
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I understand about the old injury thing. I injured my knee playing (American) football as a teen. Didn't help that I played ice hockey back then. I'm still a pretty good alpine skier and I enjoy black diamond runs, but the knee will act up once in a while.
I eat a well balanced diet which includes meat, fruit, veggies and dairy. I also take a multi-vitamin daily. BTW, I'm told vitamin E is good for the hair.
My two schnauzers eat meat as well, and dogs do need a balanced diet, too.
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