school dosent matter

as long as you have the basics down,you need to start educating yourselves learn the truth(about everything) learn how not to rely on petty people and think for yourslves develop opinoins of ur own!

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Permalink Reply by Dawn juice on June 13, 2010 at 4:32pm

as do i!
see its not that i wanted everyone to agree with me but just for them to understand my point!
thank you for reading past the title love

Permalink Reply by Ox on June 13, 2010 at 4:58pm

anytime darling ;) people can be pretty closed minded when it comes to educated as obviously its hard to look outside the box when your so deep in it! also places like university and stuff can often give you a false sense of independance and when someone criticises it its doesnt sit too well, i do think though some people to quite well out of uni and different paces of life suit different people.

Permalink Reply by Jenni D. on June 13, 2010 at 6:29pm

I did read the opener I disagree with the notion that higher education means you are brainwashed and come out mindless and incapable of forming your own opinions or in full command of your future. I do see your point, I guess I feel that most the people on here are not going to be the type of people to just do what teacher says no questions asked, or even try to fit the mould for that matter. But maybe I expect too much of people, or I'm just naive :P To imply that choosing to go to college means you are less independent is insulting and I disagree with that sentiment. If you go in a sheep you will come out a sheep. If you go in a independent thinker you will maintain that quality. I think the problem starts way before higher learning in that area anyways. If you don't teach kids to think for themselves early on the will never be able to by the time they are in college.

I waited a few years before going to college so I might just have a different view point. Some of my professors were stupid and just regurgitating the same thing that had been taught to them, but some of my professors were so inspiring and thought provoking it was worth wading through the other stuff. Also sometimes you might stumble upon something that you would never have been exposed to without school. But I don't think college is the only way to go, my point is it is a tool for you to use and you get out of it only as much as you put into it. You can fall into the same trap of making other people's opinions your own anywhere, not just school.

Also just wanted to point out nothing is going to create intelligence, your either born with it or not.

Permalink Reply by Ox on June 13, 2010 at 6:53pm

i definately agree with your point that if you go in a sheep you come out a sheep but disagree on the other side i know many an independant free thinker who has been swept up with the tide of education and has lost his spirit once he is spat out the other side, i understand your point in that you can fall into the trap out side of system but my implication that it is the ones who step outside the current who find greater independant thought, yes you can follow others opinions outside but you have to look at schools as a microcosm filled with all sorts of personalities and opinions crushed into a small space this amplifies the issue of peer pressure and makes it all too easy to be swept up with the crowd whereas outside of this there is breathing room as it were to let your mind expand and take in new influences not just state proscribed ones.
i'm sorry but you seem to have taken a more extreme view than my own to argue i didnt mention brainwashing and did not mean to imply that being in education destroys personal opinions, i have been through the system myself and we are arguing so obviously that is not true, i believe the point i was trying to get across was that the educational system (past a point) does try to mould you to fit societies guidelines and alongside dawns opinion that there is a point where the basics are learnt and one has developed to an extent that further and more expansive learner can also be had outside the system and it is often more rewarding to take the path untrodden?
and yes one could all to easily assume that the nature of this site would focus on only independant and free thinkers however sadly this is not the case as i have seen in some discussions, it takes much more than a mohawksrock account to have a liberated mind, how ever much i love this site!
Furthermore i did not mean to insult and on the point that going to college takes away independence, surely you concede it is less independant than going it alone by its very nature? there is still a support structure in place. yes it is a step into more independence but i feel there is more to be had. Although i completely agree with its use as a tool! that is something i avidly support, and what i believe it can be there for, when used by those experienced enough for it to be such.
im glad to hear you waited before going as that shows it was an independant personal choice, my argument against it is not against those like you but more against those that go because "well thats what you do next these days" i just wish more people would open thier eyes to opportunities outside of the mainstream and how rewarding they can be,
i again agree you can come across stuff you might enjoy at college/uni but personally feel there is a wider possibility of the unknown outside out what the state feeds wouldnt you agree?
i think basically my argument can be summed up as that i value life experience over book knowledge and find although school as it benefits to an extent, there our endless opportunities outside of the state and educational given blinkers set on most students heads.
and wow that is a massively debatable comment! on a tangent but an interesting one! surely from that logic you could deem that only a proportion of the youth had any education at all? as they were the only ones with the ability be intelligent? and the others set to manual labour? some kind of huxian Brave new world system? i wouldnt agree with that myself although i do believe that in the basic importance of education is the ability for one to find ones strengths...

Permalink Reply by Jenni D. on June 14, 2010 at 6:05pm

Sorry if I took your argument to the extreme, sometimes I just go off, lol. I agree you learn much more from life than from school, it is only a starting point. I also wish people wouldn't go to college just because you're "supposed" to. I guess my point should be that college isn't better or worse it's just one of many paths, so looking at it that way I can agree that school doesn't matter, but by that token, neither does anything else.

As to the intelligence thing I think we view it differently I see it as a property of the brain as opposed to a set of knowledge and skills and I do think we have a finite mental capacity. Now we can debate whether the biological hardwiring or that developing brain's environment has more effect on that mental capacity, haha. But I don't think I'm ready to argue nature versus nurture right now, I gotta go cook dinner :D

Permalink Reply by Dawn juice on June 14, 2010 at 8:56pm

no,half of these student will not go to college.and not of their own will as speaking for them we are a generation fucked over again and again by a system that chooses to teach you there views of right and wrong and to love this goverment even though you dont know the exploitation on think i did learn in school is that too them you are just cattle in thier eyes! and for the record they can choose what you do and do not learn about so when i say seek higher education i mean just that you have no idea the attrocious injustices that can be brought out by this fucked up system.I question my teacher and ask why they teach this trash and they canot even answer that question! If you want to find a historical view of proving my fucking point,look at nazi Germany they had LOADS of scientific reasoning for genocide in thier Nazi youth,communist wont teach their kids of democracy only that its evil,YOU HAVE TO FUCKING THINK FOR YOURSELF!

Permalink Reply by Jenni D. on June 15, 2010 at 6:58pm

Are you comparing our educational system to genocide?

Permalink Reply by Jenni D. on June 15, 2010 at 7:10pm

Ok sorry nvm, re-read. Not to be a bitch, but if you would perhaps educate yourself a little more on sentence structure, spelling grammar... you know, the basics?...

I get what you're saying about propaganda and only teaching certain things to make people incapable of learning any other way. I don't agree with it.

And no not everyone can make it to college or even hack it once they get there, but if they are smart, ambitions, and self sufficient they can still find a career. I thought you were the one saying school doesn't matter, so who cares if they won't make it to college?

Permalink Reply by Khaos on June 14, 2010 at 10:16pm

I just find it frustrating when people can't apply processes or their knowledge across the board when it comes to not knowing something. Problem solving (on your own or not) is one major basic function we should all be able to do. And if you can't really do that, then how can you voluntarily "better" yourself down the road? (aka: educate yourself!) We all learn differently and better in some ways, but the effort needs to be there to be effective.

I'm add/ocd and have my own way (or rituals/steps/etc) of doing things. I know that for sure. I have mental checklists on how to figure something out or where I can find the answer or next step if I'm absolutely stuck. I don't wait for someone else to teach me those things. Not nearly patient enough and half the time they don't even know what the hell they are doing.
Other than that, I had always been a fast track student - always an "alternative" type school, but I thrived. High school is something I honestly wish I could relive. My vo-ag teachers were amazing, full of passion about their subjects and it showed, in the class and in our work. I made the choice to go there instead of the mainstream school in my city, and took control of what I was learning. Especially because they offered a full 4 year course that I am working for a degree in soon! It was such a liberating decision and the right thing for me. There is value in education, but you give it that value, no one else can. You have to learn how to manipulate it to work for you though and build on that. Not everyone has had that realization, but once they do...the rest is up to them.

So, no, school doesn't always matter. Especially if you don't know how to utilize what you have already learned. Or have no ambition to do so, whether it is to further your knowledge or not. I know too many people - all over the country - who go through the motions because they are supposed to. And after that? They have no idea what to do. They aren't sure what they are interested in, and have no idea if it would be okay for them to figure things out on their own or just to invest their time doing things they enjoy. Which is kind of why their "educated opinions" always strike me as ironic. They don't necessarily keep up and continually download new information and figure out how it works in with what they already do or do not know.

Side note: I've had too many college teachers who are there just to collect a paycheck, not really caring if we learn or not. Half the time they are teaching something that isn't even halfway related to what they actually do. Having teachers like that teach you when you pay for school out of pocket is one of the most frustrating things I've ever encountered. I put my self there on my own time and by my free will to get a shitty teacher who doesn't care? No bueno, and that is definitely something to speak up on.
It's not like I'm loaded, ya know? Otherwise, I wouldn't work full time just to pay for community college, haha.

Summary -> TLDR:
This is why I'm a fan of self-paced college courses. You control what you do and don't learn. It's not just spit at you for you to regurgitate later. And it is up to YOU to learn more. =D

Permalink Reply by Dawn juice on June 15, 2010 at 12:33am

i applaud you doing this with having an obstacle to overcome.

Permalink Reply by Ghetto Gutter Shock. on June 14, 2010 at 10:36pm

All of that comes from age...I hated school, and all of the politics with it. I did not want to be told how to learn, what to learn or even yet how to become me...So I hit the streets...learned and lived from the bullshit...I will tell you this; learning for your self is a valuable tool...you learn to appreciate the safety of everyday hassles...

That is what living and learning is all about! The only way I will be able to help others, is by helping myself...and the only way I will be able to help people like you, is when your ready to have some help...

PUNK ROCK 101 : EDUCATE, INFILTRATE, DOMINATE, then POPULATE!!!!

Permalink Reply by Dawn juice on June 15, 2010 at 12:28am

are you saying i need help XD